emacs progress problem


Hi Drew,

On Feb 26, 10:24 am, "Drew Adams" wrote:
> > If people think this is a problem, please perhaps file a
> > bug report to FSF. (Alt+x report-emacs-bug)
> Why not `M-x report-emacs-bug' yourself, rather than ask others to do so?
> Quicker, and just as effective.

I did yesterday.

> > There are many diverse solutions [better ways to show ^L]
> > on the web, but they need to become part of emacs out of
> > the box.
> Filing an enhancement request through a bug report is one way to try to improve
> vanilla Emacs, but discussion about such requests is typically more limited and
> less fruitful than discussion in emacs-de...@gnu.org.
> Reasons: (1) more people subscribe to emacs-devel, (2) people tend to look to
> bug-gnu-em...@gnu.org for bug reports, not for enhancement requests, (3)
> enhancement requests are sometimes forgotten, even if not overlooked initially.

Thank you for the thoughtful and long reply about this.

I'll consider subscribing to the emacs dev mailing list.

> Wrt prettifying ^L in vanilla Emacs: I proposed that to emacs-devel years ago.
> Here are some relevant threads: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2006-12/msg00464.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2004-12/msg01035.html
> And here's a related thread from 2004 about the describe-mode problems: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2004-05/msg00275.html


I suppose the past effort on this issue went to wish-list heaven. LOL.

Richard Stallman, from my interaction with him in the past 2 years, and some reading of his post in emacs dev, i'm starting to find him very annoying. It appears to me, he's been sitting on his fat ass, completely out of touch as a coder for at least 10 years, have basically no knowledge of modern languages and technologies, but pushes and dictates his politics.

The FSF's insistence of signing of legal paper to accept code contribution is one huge obstacle too, for whatever good or bad reasons they need to do it.

... the more i look into the emacs improvement issue, the more i start to think forking is almost the only way. The Mac world really did great job, with Aquamacs emacs and Carbon emacs, and precedent ports, but ultimately mac is less than 5% of market share that puts a upper bound on what it can do to influence the emacs community, even if extremely successful. (to my chagrin, most emacs regulars here, i realized thru discussion in the past 2 years, that they know almost nothing about the social situation of emacs on the Mac.) The mac emacs community, due partly also to political reasons, are quite separate from other main emacs community. (having their own mailing list etc) So, cross communication don't happen much. This is partly due to the FSF and Richard Stallman's politics and Apple's Mac commercial background. The guy who wrote aquaemacs emacs, from the few exchange i had with him in 2008 or 2007 while i subscribed to the mac emacs list, i don't find him much of a respectable person. He, incessantly ask for donation, behaves in a nice politician way, and seems to behave in a way so that he is the only person to lead a modern emacs. (you can check the aquaemacs emacs source code to see some element of his stance) When i discussed with him about modernization, he seems to dismiss and badmouth it, yet implements all the ideas himself, and confine it to the Mac community as much as possible.

There's Lennart Borgman's emacsw32. I haven't had a windows machine since about 2006, so i haven't got into that community. I think it is a viable and powerful road to a modern emacs, simply due to the fact it is for Windows and has a usable out-of-box binary download. One major problem is that Lennart considered the emacsw32 as some type of emacs add-on, as opposed to “Download here and use right away”. Its home page is complex with philosophies and patches and multiple explanations and technicalities. So, basically, emacsw32 becomes something for existing emacs users only.

Lennart is on the emacs dev mailing list. One of his philosophy about emacs is that the Alt key should be compatible with Window's standard behavior (it invokes menu). This is a great stance, but is at odds with the typical emacs fanatics. Lennart is also a quite type of guy. (it goddamn pains me that each time i need to mention his name and find the correct spelling, i have to go to my own emacs page because he almost fucking make it a point not to stick out his name as authorship where he SHOULD, as a matter of publishing ethic. (he probably think it is a modesty. LOL my fucking ass.)) I presume his role in the emacs dev community is suppressed by the situation into another insignificant odd-ends emacs variations creator and wish-list maker.


frequently, whenever i use some open source software, often am amazed at what kind absolute idiot created the user interface. And you constantly hear the linux fanatics incessantly discuss and fight about how to improve their usability for the masses yet going nowhere. Linux, a free product, with its desktop(S) has been around since 1998 with huge brouhaha in mainstream media, today, it is still some 2% user base. What a fat ass to ridicule upon.

∑ http://xahlee.org/


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