Opera browser pain


• 〈Opera Web Browser Problems〉

> Xah Lee wrote:
> >You cannot “drag and drop” a image to a folder on desktop to save it.

On Sep 15, 1:45 pm, masonc...@XXXfrontal-lobe.info wrote:
> Why would you want to clutter your desktop?  
> However, Images can easily be saved, copied, or used on the desktop
> by one left and one right click on them.

when i browse porn, i often like to save pics i like. Drag'n'drop is the easiest.

> >They insist on using different keyboard shortcuts than every browser.
> Who needs a keyboard shortcut?  Perhaps those who do should stick
> to MSIE.

keyboard shortcuts is very convient especially for power users. e.g. emacs, vi, are all about keys. Even in mouse intensive apps, such as 3d modler Blender, or photoshop, gimp, InkScape, when you become a pro you tend to go for the keys. Because, keys are precise and brainless operation, while mousing requires the harder aim and eye-balling decision making, slower too.

> >For example, ?Ctrl+Tab? is for switching tab. But in Opera, it shows a
> >tab menu instead. Normally, i can quickly switch to different tabs and
> >stop at the one i want, visually looking at each tab for fraction of a
> >second. With Opera, i have to read the titles or small thumbnails.
> However Opera displays as many pages as you wish in its window,
> can place its toolbars wherever you wish.

【Ctrl+Tab】 to switch is convient. Because i can keep pressing it to switch among tabs quickly, and stop at the tab i want. Usual practical speed is perhaps viewing 6 tabs per second. I normally have about 10 to 20 tabs open in each of Chrome and FireFox. (my 2 daily browser, open at all times) This many because when you do research on a topic, you have a lot pages.

Also, i've got system-wide key macros so that 【Ctrl+Tab】 and 【Ctrl+Shift+Tab】 are single keys (they are the / and * on numpad). Of course, my system works in all browsers but stops dead in just Opera itself.

the conventional hotkey to switch tabs on Windows are
【Ctrl+Tab】, 【Ctrl+Shift+Tab】 and or
【Ctrl+PageUp】 , 【Ctrl+PageDown】.

All browser supports one of these shortcuts, usually both.

in my key macro app (on Windows it's AutoHotkey http://xahlee.org/mswin/autohotkey.html ), i can easily adjust to one of these. With opera, it takes some 10 min or more to findout what key is what for each operation i have macro for... the end result has been that i just didn't bother and abandoned opera for the possibility of using it more often.

> >Also, when closing a tab, instead of showing the tab next to the
> >closed one, Opera tries to be smart and jump to some other tab,
> >something like the one opened before the one you closed. Very
> >confusing. Same thing happens when switching to next/prev tabs using
> >their 1 and 2 key shortcuts on the numerical keypad.
> You do have to get used to Opera's conveniences.
> >?Ctrl++? does not zoom in.
> But + and - are all you need.

Thanks. Yesterday while i was frustrated and writing this, noticed the standard zoom in key Ctrl++ doesn't work. However, apparantly 【Ctrl+-】 does zoom out. So naturally one'd think 【Ctrl++】 should work too. So, you can see where this confusion came from. The point here is that the non-standardness adds up, like some might say about emacs. You end up spending days just to learn the tool first, before you can use it fruitfully.

> >Nudging my mouse's scroll wheel to the sides should scroll window
> >horizontally. It does not work in Opera, but it does in IE, Chrome,
> >Safari, FireFox. While Opera is supposed to suppose some fancy
> >“gestures”. Gesture my ass.
> Side scroll?  Oye.  By the way, Opera has a "Fit to Width" button that
> performs miracles in eliminating horizontal scrolling.

Side scroll is important.
There are popular sites that relies solely on side scroll.

e.g. http://www.plurk.com/chunweiku

the plurk site made mouse wheel to scroll horizontally, but there are other sites, that are designed to be horizontally scrolled, either for artistic effect or for practical purposes (e.g. history line, a series of photos, panorama).

all things said, for scroll wheel mouses that has left/right push feature , it seems stupid not to support the functionality of the device. The fact that all other major browsers do support it, indicates it's not some tech hurdle.

one wonders why opera doesn't support it. Is it just sloppiness, or they actually intentionally decided that they didn't want to support it?

what i can't really believe is that they don't support drag'n'drop for saving images. That's the last straw that broke the camel's back, and made me to write my essay. At first as usual i thought the feature is hidden in some preference that i need to turn it on... but not, after searching the web a bit.

> >The number keys on the numerical keypad do weird things. For example,
> >7 seems to zoom out to 20%. 8 zooms to 120%. 5 turns the current tab
> >into a window, inside the main window. 1 and 2 is for switching prev/
> >next tab.
> >The 1 and 2 key for switching tabs is convenient. You can repeatedly
> >press one of these keys to get to the tab you want. However, if you
> >landed on a empty page (new tab), the key starts to insert text in the
> >url field.
> Your are describing things utterly strange to me.  You must have really
> screwed up Opera's customization.  I suggest you remove it and re-install.

The numerical keypad as functional shortcuts keys is part of Opera, i discovered and started to use since maybe 2005 on the Mac.

I recall, few years ago when a new version of Opera came out, they removed those keys, and adopted keys more similar to FireFox. (and i was thinking: “Opera finally realized the weirdness of their keys”) But i like the 1 and 2 keys for tab switching, so i went to the preference and took a while to find a option something like “use previous opera keyset”, so i have 1 and 2 as tab switching keys.

in the latest opera 10.62, i don't know by default these are supported... maybe the reason it doesn't work for u because it was carried over from my preference settings... too lazy to dig now.

> >The ?Ctrl+w? key lets me close a tab in IE, FireFox, Chrome, Safari,
> >but doesn't work in Opera.
> So you want standardized mediocrity?  All key shortcuts are customizable.

there's a good reason to support standard, or widely adopted practices.

For example, in my case, i have system-wide key macro sets. So, i press one single key to close window or tab in any browser or other app. But when in Opera, things stopped working. So i have to adjust my macros, but then, it is time consuming to find out what's Opera's ways. This seems to be my impression in the past 10 years every year i tried.

Also, in mid 2000s i was on a low-muscled Mac laptob, so i kept a eye on cpu use for any app i use. I recall, Opera even when idle with no page loaded, will suck some 10% of cpu. I recall, all other browsers do much better. I vaguely recall the best was Camino in this regard.

am a keyboarding freak. You might find some interesting tips at my site:

• 〈All About Keyboards, Keyboard Layouts, Shortcuts, Macros〉

> >In 10.5x, it sports some unusual sidebar widgets, like “Unite”,
> >“Notes”, and some Sync. And also a trashcan?! Am i supposed to spend a
> >hour study what these are?
> I never saw them in any Opera ( have seen all versions, now 10.62).  I guess
> they can be added.

that's odd. My version is 10.62, just updated few days ago, i think it was released this month or maybe last month.

On the left side, there's the bar sporting several new icons. On top right, you have this recycle bin trashcan. (gosh, maybe i'll do a screenshot in my next post)

ah, just realized, on the lower left corner of window, there's a widget. Click it to show the side panel that toggle display these new weird widget icons.

The menu by default is gone, instead, you have on the top left corner a menu-button kinda widget, that effectively collaps all menus into one hierachical menu.

> >Yeah, supposedly all these can be customized. But every time i tried
> >to look at its preference settings, it's nearly impossible to find or
> >set what i want, because it sports its own fancy structure and UI too.
> You need a baby buggy, not a Ferari.

hehe, a buggy to relax and see the country side? yes i needed that.

> There are countless Microsoft and IE haters, and for good reasons, but
> you work for Microsoft don't you?  Microsoft's persistence in trying to
> control standards and maintain a monopoly is well known.

there are few messages in this thread with the common opinion of Microsoft hatred, many are ill informed. Remember, that it is Microsoft that brought the concept of adhering to standard html and css, at the time when Netscape is very busy creating blinks and LiveScript and stuff. In the early days (late 1990s), IE on the mac was the first browser to support css or validation or something (you can easily find it in Wikipedia here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_Mac or other articles about IE, web standard...)

Netscape browser, in my personal experience, in every year since IE started, are worse than IE in EVERY aspect: standard compliance, speed, features, crashiness... There are ample evidence that's still available on the web you can verify. I ranted about it, see:

• 〈Netscape Crap〉

IE won the browser war in early 2000s, basically got the whole market. So, they've been lazy, and thus the fact that IE has been worst browser in every aspect since mid 2005. But Microsoft has been putting more effort back to browser in past few years, with IE 8 perhaps being the first better result. (but then the slew of Microsoft haters will badmouth Microsoft doesn't matter what Microsoft do. One big controversial topic is whether IE 8 should simply stick to standard and fuck compatibility to the giga billions of existing web sites. This been blogged to death.)

in recent years, several times i'm ran into Opera's guy Håkon Wium Lie badmouthing IE, and i find his attacks scumbaggy.

For example, in his article 〈MS: Get real about interoperability, Mr Gates?〉 @ theregister.co.uk, he attack Microsoft for claiming to play nice yet all their pages still not valid html or something to that effect.

Look at opera home page now:

the above pages are not html valid, out of about 10 pages i just checked now (and their server seems to send wrong css mine type as text/html instead of text/css). Should we now launch a attack on Håkon for being a hypocrite?

Of course, many will say that IE won the first browser war because Microsoft's dubious business tactics, but i don't agree. This article might be of interest:

• 〈On Microsoft Hatred〉

plain texn version follows
On Microsoft Hatred

Xah Lee, 2002-02-23

Dear Naggum,

It is well known that you are a avid hater of Microsoft, from their technologies to their leader to their business practices. I have now and then seen your impassioned expression of this hatred, scattered among your newsgroup posts.

Personally, i have a inherent distrust toward big organizations. This applies to Microsoft. Since perhaps 1995, MS has become more and more large, and as well becoming a hate target especially among unix communities. Of MS hatred there are two aspects: those who think MS products are utterly incompetent, and those who think MS business practices are the most evil.

I have always been a Apple Macintosh user. I have used a few MS products such as MS Word word processor on the Mac since about 1991, and Mac version of MS Internet Explorer web browser and Outlook Express email program when they became available around 1997 or so free of charge. My experiences have been that MS software on the Mac are pretty good, if not usually better than competitors. In fact, before the MS-hatred era of late 1990s, i recall that i was found of MS Word and would say it was the software that never crashed, with the richest (useful) features. I have not used MS Windows much until 1999, so i cannot judge from my own experience whether people's complains about MS's product's poor quality. By the time i used MS Windows daily in 1999, it was MS Windows NT, and i have moved into industrial programing field now called IT. At the time Apple's OS is around version 8. Although Windows is not as esthetic or intuitive as my beloved Mac OS, but on the whole i think Windows NT beats the shit out of Mac OS by far. Mac OS crashed daily if a info-collecting tech-head like myself are careful, hourly if not, and among quite a few of other reasons.

As the MS hatred is rolling like a snowball, i started to pay attention. On one hand, i never cared for Microsoft. Their sole impression on me before 1998 was that MS Word is good software, and i hate Windows just because i'm a dedicated Apple fan just because Apple had made many revolutionary innovations in both software and hardware, and MS was Apple's market enemy. Although i think the unix crowd are tech morons of the world, but when it comes to political issues, i'm inclined to side with their freedom loving and paranoia propensities. I'm ashamed to admit, that i started to visit unix moron's mecca the slashdot.org around 1999, and have read quite a lot of their MS hatred verbiage, from drivel of sopho-morons to Eric Raymond's Open Source Jihad to Richard Stallman's Free Software Foundation. Perhaps due to their propaganda, at times i shudder at the mind-numbing MS juggernaut, and have felt ready to join their cause and kill Microsoft.

Since 1999, my behavior have in fact been mildly anti-Microsoft. I would, for example, mention Free Software or Open Source in meetings, avoid using MS products myself and convert all my MS Word files i have on my Mac to some standard format such as plain text, and also use the Free Software Foundation's GNU Public License for my own software dabblings. Still, i was never a MS hater. Many colleagues i know are MS haters, but i'm just a mild Free Software proponent and was never sure i should be a MS hater. I could have investigated the issue, by studying the various lawsuits, check out MS history, exam and verify MS hater's essays, but life is short and i have other interests so i did not undertook such activities and never decided whether MS should be hated. I just disliked big organizations, and thus Microsoft.

Since 1999 i entered the field of industrial programing known as Info Technology. In particular, i'm a web application programer on the unix platform. My daily office machines are PCs running Microsoft Windows (NT and followings) and remote unix servers. I find NT quite usable and almost never crashed at least as a desktop machine. I don't know much about any MS-bred technologies, but i knew quite a lot about unix. My attitude towards unixes is that it is the MOST incompetent thing in the computing world. I am a outright unix HATER. I have becoming increasingly nosy about unix MS-hater's claims technology-wise as most readily found from slashdot.org, from User Interface design to protocol “embrace & extend” to innovation to power & flexibility to security considerations. In the past few years, i started to pay mild attention to the question of whether from a technical or technological point of view MS should be hated.

Even i don't know much Microsoft technologies except as a daily Windows user, but in my personal judgment system among all things considered, i think that if MS has done damage to society then unix has done hundred times more. I believe that Microsoft Windows technologies is on the whole FAR superior to unixes both as a PC and server, all things considered. (this includes the fact that unix is more stable than Windows NT, today. (as opposed to examing unix's early years)) Comparing to the other major desktop Operating System the Mac OS (where unixes are so incompetent it is out of the question), with intact conscience i think that MS's OS (Windows NT) since about 1997 has left my beloved Mac OS in dust. If Windows 98 is poor quality (i know it is), then Mac OS of that year is neighborhood crap.

(i plan to have book-length material on the reasons, but here for now i can only briefly state my beliefs in a conclusive manner.)

The above is my beliefs on product or technological quality aspect of Microsoft-hatred. I have much interest in technology than politics or business, thus my know-how of social oriented issues pales in comparison. I have never examined the accusations of MS's evil business practices, other than news hearsay. To this day, i know little of what is true or false regarding MS's business practices. Although i have never undertook a interest of a topic, but as a philosopher i have gathered opinions regarding a topic from great variety of sources and experiences, and can form a personal judgment. And from my observations of computing industry, and my little knowledge of economics, all things and experiences lead me to believe that there is little to no reason to hate MS for their business practice either. Sometimes last year i read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics. Although he never talked about software in the book, but that book made a major impression on my views of MS-hating issues.

Around 1994 i read the book 《Steve Jobs and the NeXT big thing》 amazon by historian Randall E Stross, and i was highly positively impressed by him. I have then learned that he also wrote a book in 1997 on MS: 《The Microsoft Way : The Real Story of How the Company Outsmarts Its Competition》 amazon. Although i have not read the book, but from amazon.com reviews it indicated that he simply think that the success of MS is due to being smart.

There are various lawsuits against the MS giant in the last few years, from Sun Microsystem's Java lawsuit, to United States vs Microsoft anti-trust lawsuit, to last month's AOL suit for Netscape browser. As you know, Sun is a unix vendor, with its own greedy grip on Java. I frankly don't buy any bullshit from the Sun Micro commercial turd. MS may be devious with their own “standard”-breaking java, but no more shady than Sun's “Universal” Java sham in the first fucking place. Any commercial organizations do devious things for their own interest. As to United State's claim that MS screwed innovation by bundling browser, that itself is a fantastic fucking idea. Integrating browser into OS is a innovation, and amid so great many claims that MS does not innovate, i can think of quite a few cases where MS has in fact been innovative or responsible for technological lead from my personal computing experiences. (Microsoft Word accounts for great many innovations in word processing alone.) And, who needs the government to meddle with industry? (as i have learned in Thomas's Sowell's book, anti-trust cases are invariably all the same. Anti-trust laws in the outset purport to protect the consumer, but always ends up as a weapon used by competing corporations against the successful in a free-market system.) Lastly is the AOL's bandwagon-hopping lawsuit in the name of fantastically incompetent Netscape browser. Fuck America On-Line.

I'm often ignorant when it comes to economics practicality, such as stock market or personal finance. Since about 1999, i started to become a stock holder, thus started to learn a bit of its nature. On this process, one thing came to my attention is that Microsoft is a public owned company. Public owned companies are directed by the people who own its stock, and any joe can purchase it. That means, if Microsoft is a evil empire, then the public shares a great blame. From this aspect, i don't see any sense of Microsoft-hatred either. Blame the public, such as your boss and neighbors and wife and friends and community, or, blame the fantastic greed-oriented system called capitalism that made USA so prosperous far beyond the moral-oriented communist/socialist nations or sovereignly ruled kingdoms and queendoms.

Xah ∑ xahlee.org ☄

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